tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post8021556796035667279..comments2023-11-02T03:51:26.343-07:00Comments on Coalition for Fog: CarpenterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-4494084928633557222007-05-17T13:47:00.000-07:002007-05-17T13:47:00.000-07:00But I believe that people who are outraged must fi...<I>But I believe that people who are outraged must first call their own to account. It's as simple as that.</I><BR/><BR/>I completely agree. That is precisely why I believe it is so tacky when Rod, now an Orthodox, keeps bashing the Catholic bishops while scarcely peeping about his own Orthodox bishops/perps/scandals.<BR/><BR/>Thass all. :)<BR/><BR/>DianeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-13446861525845944352007-05-17T13:13:00.000-07:002007-05-17T13:13:00.000-07:00Diane, the reason I emphacize the Catholic dimenti...Diane, the reason I emphacize the Catholic dimention to the sex-abuse crisis is because I'm Catholic. Of course, sexual abuse is horrible regardless of who performs it. who enables it and whom it victimizes; frankly, I think the Orthodox bishops who enable this abomination also should be hanged in public. But I believe that people who are outraged must first call their own to account. It's as Joseph D'Hippolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15571554907399914529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-2784393519066699282007-05-17T00:07:00.000-07:002007-05-17T00:07:00.000-07:00I realize there was one thing from Diane that woul...I realize there was one thing from Diane that would still have made context-sense without Carpenter's comments. Here it is:<BR/><BR/><I>I am frankly getting tired of this Open-Season-on-Jonathan crap. And I do not understand it. It's just weird.<BR/><BR/>Diane</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-36102135769312369362007-05-17T00:05:00.000-07:002007-05-17T00:05:00.000-07:00Carpenter:Go away. I will never give you any forum...Carpenter:<BR/>Go away. I will never give you any forum.<BR/><BR/>I deleted other comments responding to him, from others (Diane, Bubba and Mark A., IIRC) simply because it made it read "huh?" I'm sorry to lose the grammar fart exchange. Nothing personal is intended against any of you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-61174507958792392212007-05-16T21:58:00.000-07:002007-05-16T21:58:00.000-07:00Kathleen: "i guess dreher's gulag lets him blog."L...<I>Kathleen: "i guess dreher's gulag lets him blog."</I><BR/><BR/>LOLPaulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17506171638613025839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-49238299047074587872007-05-16T21:53:00.000-07:002007-05-16T21:53:00.000-07:00Very well, Kathleen, then why do you resent Dreher...<I>Very well, Kathleen, then why do you resent Dreher?</I><BR/><BR/>Speaking for myself, not Kathleen: I do not resent Dreher himself. I resent his double standard.<BR/><BR/>How many times must I say "double standard" before it sinks in?<BR/><BR/>It's the <B>DOUBLE STANDARD.</B> Get that? Double standard.<BR/><BR/>In a sense, I would not care if Rod became a whirling dervish (and I wouldn't be a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-45534518558093488222007-05-16T17:52:00.000-07:002007-05-16T17:52:00.000-07:00"Very well, Kathleen, then why do you resent Drehe..."Very well, Kathleen, then why do you resent Dreher?"<BR/><BR/>joe, if you're actually interested in an answer to that question, the entire archive of concrunchy.blogspot.com is still online for your perusal. i would refer you to dreher's NR and beliefnot blogs if he had actually ever engaged our arguments, sadly he did not -- but if you want to read his gratuitous litttle jibes at us the dreherkathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-32721045185170484002007-05-16T15:01:00.000-07:002007-05-16T15:01:00.000-07:00Joe, you are simply wrong to state we resent drehe...<I>Joe, you are simply wrong to state we resent dreher because we're living in catholic fantasy world where every cleric is a hero -- or even competent. you're. simply. wrong.</I><BR/><BR/>Very well, Kathleen, then why do you resent Dreher?<BR/><BR/>For his conversion? That would hold merit only if he was masquerading as a Catholic <I>for the entire time</I> he was criticizing the hierarchy. WhenJoseph D'Hippolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15571554907399914529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-5952128083426966192007-05-16T13:27:00.000-07:002007-05-16T13:27:00.000-07:00"Kathleen, my comments about Rod's conclusions dea..."Kathleen, my comments about Rod's conclusions deal with the sex-abuse crisis and the corruption of the hierarchy, not about his conversion."<BR/><BR/>it doesn't matter if we are talking about "The Scandal" or dreher's conversion, the point is dreher's prudential judgment about matters spiritual has been questioned by hordes of catholics, even those like Shea who have a vested interest in kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-49604591481388025942007-05-16T13:05:00.000-07:002007-05-16T13:05:00.000-07:00Joe, for me if no one else, the issue of "when" ma...Joe, for me if no one else, the issue of "when" matters in judging the morality of Jonathan's investigation and announcement of Rod's conversion.<BR/><BR/>The "when" of Rod's making public his conversion was about three months after the conversion itself, during which time he (by his own admission) deliberately refused to answer questions about whether he converted, engaging in behavior which canAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-60079754377566360422007-05-16T12:35:00.000-07:002007-05-16T12:35:00.000-07:00What I mean by "when," if I didn't make it clear, ...What I mean by "when," if I didn't make it clear, was Rod's conversion date.Joseph D'Hippolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15571554907399914529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-457478858551996832007-05-16T12:32:00.000-07:002007-05-16T12:32:00.000-07:00Mark, your point is well taken. But people already...Mark, your point is well taken. But people already know about Dreher's Orthodox affiliation. Rod himself made it a public issue. You and others seem to be saying that the issue is "when." Well, if he continues to criticize the Catholic Church -- regardless of whether he's Catholic or Orthodox, regardless of his conversion date -- then what difference does the "when" question make?<BR/><BR/>Joseph D'Hippolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15571554907399914529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-48200276489025665362007-05-16T12:19:00.000-07:002007-05-16T12:19:00.000-07:00I don't care about Rod's conversion. Why should an...<I>I don't care about Rod's conversion. Why should anybody else?</I><BR/><BR/>Do you really need someone to explain to you why the ecclesial affiliation of a writer who writes on matters religious and who made much of his name as a forceful critic of the the Catholic hierarchy might be of interest to some people? Do you really not know why the religious faith of someone who writes a blog at Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-38512021764012268722007-05-16T12:05:00.000-07:002007-05-16T12:05:00.000-07:00er, has it occurred to you that maybe they *don't*...<I>er, has it occurred to you that maybe they *don't* believe his conclusions have substance and merit? shea has said as much about dreher's conversion.</I><BR/><BR/>Kathleen, my comments about Rod's conclusions deal with the sex-abuse crisis and the corruption of the hierarchy, not about his conversion. I don't care about Rod's conversion. Why should anybody else?<BR/><BR/>If you say that he Joseph D'Hippolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15571554907399914529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-50625945513857395582007-05-16T11:52:00.000-07:002007-05-16T11:52:00.000-07:00"BTW, Diane, if what you say about Shea's and Welb..."BTW, Diane, if what you say about Shea's and Welborn's motivations are correct, then it was absolute cowardice on their parts not to defend Dreher more vigorously, especially if his conclusions had substance and merit."<BR/><BR/>this is kathleen, not diane. er, has it occurred to you that maybe they *don't* believe his conclusions have substance and merit? shea has said as much about dreher's kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-39700591250746845002007-05-16T11:37:00.000-07:002007-05-16T11:37:00.000-07:00You actually give emphasis to the word "never" and...<I>You actually give emphasis to the word "never" and then go on to list exceptions. Remarkable.</I><BR/><BR/>Mark, there's a difference between standing up for somebody and not attacking him. The first is active; the second is passive. While Shea never attacked Dreher, I never saw him write that Rod was right. I don't believe I ever saw Amy Welborn come out and say the same thing, either.<BR/><Joseph D'Hippolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15571554907399914529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-80291491395891614112007-05-16T11:07:00.000-07:002007-05-16T11:07:00.000-07:00I doubt that you would have agreed with anything h...<I>I doubt that you would have agreed with anything he said in the first place</I><BR/><BR/>Once again Joe, just like Shea, you think you can read the minds of your opponents but you cannot.<BR/><BR/>I happen to agree with 90-95% of the criticism Dreher had for the Catholic hierarchy as it related to the sex abuse crises (in fact I think I have told you this once before). I aplauded much of whatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-22477553783197687272007-05-16T11:05:00.000-07:002007-05-16T11:05:00.000-07:00Shea and Welborn didn't give dreher a hard time be...Shea and Welborn didn't give dreher a hard time because, for among other reasons, they were all logrolling each other. Shea and Welborn clearly saw dreher as a ticket to getting published in dead tree media. I don't say this to criticize them, it's just clear that they felt this way about Dreher, as almost any blogger interested in publishing their work and dealing with an "establishment kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-41215406120699939512007-05-16T10:56:00.000-07:002007-05-16T10:56:00.000-07:00Besides, nowhere did Christ say, "Thou shalt spy o...<I>Besides, nowhere did Christ say, "Thou shalt spy out thy neighbor if he appears to be politically incorrect."</I><BR/><BR/>Ah yes, Jonathan Carpenter, standard bearer for political correctness . . .<BR/><BR/>From what I can tell, Mr. Carpenter is a certifiable idiot. But the idea that he outed Dreher's conversion as an act of political correctness is an indicator of how incapable you are Joe Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-29297979722619660822007-05-16T10:55:00.000-07:002007-05-16T10:55:00.000-07:00Joe:Bubba, I realize that you and others have had ...Joe:<BR/><BR/><I>Bubba, I realize that you and others have had problems with Rod's often-impatient behavior toward you. Nevertheless, what does it matter to you or they whether he's Catholic, Orthodox, Southern Baptist or anything else?</I><BR/><BR/><B>It doesn't,</B> beyond the general principle of believing certain belief systems being closer to the truth than others and desiring to see the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-20459006545808798102007-05-16T10:52:00.000-07:002007-05-16T10:52:00.000-07:00"I have never seen any Catholic on the Internet st..."<I>I have <B>never</B> seen any Catholic on the Internet stand up for Dreher when he was reporting on the sex-abuse crisis.</I> Indeed, I've seen Catholic after Catholic assault his character, merely for having the audacity to criticize the bishops (Shea, ironically, being one of the few exceptions, along with Amy Welborn)."<BR/><BR/>You actually give emphasis to the word "never" and then go on Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-76514550148877387222007-05-16T10:51:00.001-07:002007-05-16T10:51:00.001-07:00"What Jonathan Carpenter did was akin to somebody ..."What Jonathan Carpenter did was akin to somebody reporting a fellow citizen to the Stasi, the Gestapo or the KGB."<BR/><BR/>i guess dreher's gulag lets him blog.kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-46309929574381456222007-05-16T10:51:00.000-07:002007-05-16T10:51:00.000-07:00BTW, for the record, I think Rod's views on the Ir...BTW, for the record, I think Rod's views on the Iraq War are becoming more and more inane. Nevertheless, that doesn't negate his moral power in exposing episcopal corruption and insularity.<BR/><BR/>Dreher himself is not the issue. The issue is the facts involved and the interpretations that follow.Joseph D'Hippolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15571554907399914529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-48579724211239329392007-05-16T10:50:00.000-07:002007-05-16T10:50:00.000-07:00OTOH, have you ever considered the possibility tha...<I>OTOH, have you ever considered the possibility that Rod is so tired of reporting about sexual abuse that he no longer has any desire to do so?</I><BR/><BR/>All I can say is that his ennui comes at a very convenient time. It lets him off the hook WRT his new communion. How convenient!<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, he is STILL BASHING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH at every opportunity--and often on really dumb, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-27864263460904976722007-05-16T10:43:00.000-07:002007-05-16T10:43:00.000-07:00So many issues, so little time....1. Diane, you ob...So many issues, so little time....<BR/><BR/>1. Diane, you object to the double standard. That's a fair challenge that Rod must address. OTOH, have you ever considered the possibility that Rod is so tired of reporting about sexual abuse that he no longer has any desire to do so?<BR/><BR/>2. Bubba, I realize that you and others have had problems with Rod's often-impatient behavior toward you. Joseph D'Hippolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15571554907399914529noreply@blogger.com