tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post8503716105023449647..comments2023-11-02T03:51:26.343-07:00Comments on Coalition for Fog: Giuliani continued ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-53210171967826250112007-03-15T07:16:00.000-07:002007-03-15T07:16:00.000-07:00"The case that he would do so strikes me as being ..."The case that he would do so strikes me as being fairly weak and based on quite a bit of wishful thinking."<BR/><BR/>how is it wishful thinking to suppose that the GOP nominee would act to keep its base happy, insofar as they wish to remain identified with the pro-life movement? you yourself said if they abandon that they risk becoming a "politcal non-entity". if you buy your own arguments, kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-76400997605048620112007-03-15T07:14:00.000-07:002007-03-15T07:14:00.000-07:00"It's only oxymoronic if you think overturning Roe..."It's only oxymoronic if you think overturning Roe would magically end all abortion in America"<BR/><BR/>I'm not holding out for magic, you are. i'm not looking for a magic, unrealistic "end to all abortion", you are. Overturning Roe is the ONLY place to start -- that should be obvious to you. But if magic is the only thing you consider worth fighting for, then get back to your Harry Potter kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-14446931210766400302007-03-14T19:04:00.000-07:002007-03-14T19:04:00.000-07:00Josiah says: It's only oxymoronic if you think ove...Josiah says: <BR/><BR/>It's only oxymoronic if you think overturning Roe would magically end all abortion in America. Returning the issue to the states will be a hollow victory if in the process the pro-life movement is politically marginalized and fractured.<BR/><BR/>At the risk of repeating myself, allow me to repeat myself: I don't think Rudy would appoint Scalia-type justices. The case that Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-12282179778203598732007-03-14T17:39:00.000-07:002007-03-14T17:39:00.000-07:00PS: having gone to law school, you must certainly ...PS: having gone to law school, you must certainly be aware that no judicial candidate can state "i will reverse roe" at any time before or during the approval process. it depends on if the case comes before the judge, if it's the right case with the right facts, etc. so i can't imagine any better scenario for a pro-lifer than a GOP candidate/president setting out to appoint people like Scalia, kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-86371012295334374512007-03-14T17:33:00.000-07:002007-03-14T17:33:00.000-07:00"Second, if I thought that Giuliani would appoint ..."Second, if I thought that Giuliani would appoint Scalia-type justices, but that his election would do serious damage to the GOP and the pro-life movement, I still wouldn't support him. Is that so hard to understand?"<BR/><BR/>*Yes*, it's impossible to understand because it's oxymoronic.kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-5566243348507195732007-03-14T15:20:00.000-07:002007-03-14T15:20:00.000-07:00Josiah says: First, as should be clear from my pri...Josiah says: <BR/><BR/>First, as should be clear from my prior comments, I'm not convinced that Giuliani would appoint Scalia-type justices to the Supreme Court. The fact that Giuliani said he likes Scalia but doesn't think he'll vote to overturn Roe doesn't inspire much confidence. <BR/><BR/>Second, if I thought that Giuliani would appoint Scalia-type justices, but that his election would do Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-27368463748634980452007-03-14T14:45:00.000-07:002007-03-14T14:45:00.000-07:00so giuliani appointing judges like scalia isn't go...so giuliani appointing judges like scalia isn't good enough for you. excuse me, but is there some other magical way of reducing abortions that i don't know about? short of a nationwide religious conversion and a wholesale dumping of the current congress, how else do you plan to get rid of abortion on a nationwide basis except by ultimately reversing roe? and in turn, how would one reverse roe kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-47370004494855707682007-03-14T13:11:00.000-07:002007-03-14T13:11:00.000-07:00Josiah says: Kathleen, Actually, my opposition to ...Josiah says: <BR/><BR/>Kathleen, <BR/><BR/>Actually, my opposition to Giuliani is based precisely on my desire *not* to become a political non-entity, which is what will happen to the GOP and the pro-life movement if he wins.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-41368543370224149962007-03-14T11:44:00.000-07:002007-03-14T11:44:00.000-07:00"And yes, I realize that Rudy would not have been ..."And yes, I realize that Rudy would not have been elected mayor of New York if he'd been pro-life. So what?"<BR/><BR/>Josiah, there's no point in responding to my comments if you don't read them. <BR/><BR/>anyway, y'all have it your way. refuse to vote for giuliani, should he be the candidate, and watch decisions like Roe get handed down for a generation more at least. that's fine with you, sokathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-50235361108823969132007-03-13T20:41:00.000-07:002007-03-13T20:41:00.000-07:00Here's what Cal Thomas (no abortion advocate he) s...Here's what Cal Thomas (no abortion advocate he) said about growing evangelical support for "pro-choice" Republicans, from this March 13 column on TownHall.com:<BR/><BR/>http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/CalThomas/2007/03/13/the_maturing_of_the_right<BR/><BR/>Key excerpts:<BR/><BR/><I>That substantial numbers of conservative evangelical voters are even considering these candidates as Joseph D'Hippolitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15571554907399914529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-3855735677860403662007-03-13T18:12:00.000-07:002007-03-13T18:12:00.000-07:00Josiah says: Kathleen, Most legal scholars would a...Josiah says: <BR/><BR/>Kathleen, <BR/><BR/>Most legal scholars would agree that Roe was badly reasoned. I doubt most would favor overturning Roe, though. In any event, Rudy (who is certainly not a legal scholar) doesn't favor overturning it, and says he doesn't think Roberts and Alito will vote to overturn it. Maybe he's lying; maybe he's ill-informed. Either way it doesn't speak well of his Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-72578292758595561312007-03-13T13:10:00.000-07:002007-03-13T13:10:00.000-07:00I don't disagree with you when it comes to the lac...I don't disagree with you when it comes to the lack of a strong unified voice condemning abortion. Many young priests are speaking forcefully on the issue, but more can be done.<BR/><BR/>That said, even if Priests were more active in speaking on the issue, will it dramatically reduce the number of abortions? Yeah, some. But it isn't gong to get us where we need to go.<BR/><BR/>This issue Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-56773957278754168212007-03-13T12:57:00.000-07:002007-03-13T12:57:00.000-07:00JOSEPH D'HIPPOLITO SAYS...Paul Zummo: It's good to...<B>JOSEPH D'HIPPOLITO SAYS...</B><BR/><BR/><I>Paul Zummo: It's good to pretend that everything will be all right if we just let the culture move in a pro-life direction. But how many millions more will die while it is given judicial sanction? It's like those who said that slavery would die a natural cause.</I><BR/><BR/>You're absolutely right, Paul, and I'm not being sarcastic when I say that. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-88802107758619732162007-03-13T08:44:00.000-07:002007-03-13T08:44:00.000-07:00PS: I might also add that had Rudy not taken the p...PS: I might also add that had Rudy not taken the positions he did in NYC, he would not have been elected mayor, and therefore would not be a national candidate today. discussion of his merits or demerits would not even be on the table -- something to consider.kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-25753431105747653562007-03-13T08:41:00.000-07:002007-03-13T08:41:00.000-07:00Josiah, given what we know about the conservative ...Josiah, given what we know about the conservative justices recently appointed, it's safe to assume that they would agree with scalia on a decision as ridiculous as roe was. as i have stated previously, even rabidly pro-choice legal scholars think roe is a terrible decision. it's exceptionally bad law.kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-6592513155408508852007-03-13T06:58:00.000-07:002007-03-13T06:58:00.000-07:00Josiah says: Kathleen, If believing in stare decis...Josiah says: <BR/><BR/>Kathleen, <BR/><BR/>If believing in stare decisis meant that you could never overturn a precedent, then you would have a point. But we both know that's not true. Scalia, for example, has said that there are several constitutional doctrines (such as incorporation) that he thinks are wrong, but which are so widely accepted he doesn't think they should be overturned. This is, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-63242239106499845362007-03-13T05:30:00.000-07:002007-03-13T05:30:00.000-07:00BTW, I do agree that culture is very important, an...BTW, I do agree that culture is very important, and that's not something that we can fully control through the political process. But as I said in the very first post on this thread, that's why electing a pro-choice Republican could be dangerous - it could send a very negative message culturally, making abortion seem a little more acceptable to some. I think we overemphasize the importance and Paul Zummohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574775522802920843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-29177668632503522752007-03-13T05:19:00.000-07:002007-03-13T05:19:00.000-07:00Joe, the number of abortions has declined, but tha...Joe, the number of abortions has declined, but that decline has abated in recent years. There are still well over 1,000,000 abortions performed per year.<BR/><BR/>Again, conservatives are pushing for the very thing that you want - a return of the issue to the states. We can't place 100% confidence in the judical picks of the President - look at O'Connor, Kennedy, and Souter - but it would be Paul Zummohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574775522802920843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-55251566797362374702007-03-12T21:55:00.000-07:002007-03-12T21:55:00.000-07:00JOSEPH D'HIPPOLITO SAYS...Paul, if Roe v. Wade rem...<B>JOSEPH D'HIPPOLITO SAYS...</B><BR/><BR/>Paul, if Roe v. Wade remains the law of the land (and it seems that it will for the forseeable future), to what degree should those who oppose abortion place *any* confidence in political or judicial means to overturn it? <BR/><BR/>From what I've heard, abortion is declining in this country (I don't have the raw data; I wish I did). If that's true, is Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-43738170920614949792007-03-12T18:40:00.000-07:002007-03-12T18:40:00.000-07:00"As for how a person could coherently support Roe ..."As for how a person could coherently support Roe v. Wade and Roberts and Alito, the answer is stare decisis."<BR/><BR/>well, yeah, i guess scalia et al. could throw their legal philosophies out the window entirely and decide they should never reverse *any* decision handed down by the court, because stare decisis is such an important and overriding principle. but the likelihood of that happeningkathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-22289100010456607562007-03-12T12:16:00.000-07:002007-03-12T12:16:00.000-07:00Josiah says: So saying "yes" when asked if you thi...Josiah says: <BR/><BR/>So saying "yes" when asked if you think Roe v. Wade was rightly decided doesn't mean that you think Roe v. Wade was rightly decided? Who do you think you're fooling?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-91956837768097899442007-03-12T11:16:00.000-07:002007-03-12T11:16:00.000-07:00"I take this opportunity to restate the commitment...<I>"I take this opportunity to restate the commitment of the Administration to protect women’s right to seek reproductive health advice and services if that is their choice," the Mayor concluded.</I><BR/><BR/>No argument that Giuliani, from a legislative standpoint, supports legalized abortion. I don't, however, see this as support for Roe v. Wade's usurping of the issue from the state Roger H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03548346750315438363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-35329774130348566982007-03-12T07:43:00.000-07:002007-03-12T07:43:00.000-07:00Josiah says: Here's a press release from Rudy's pr...Josiah says: <BR/><BR/>Here's a press release from Rudy's press office documenting his support for Roe v. Wade: <BR/><BR/>http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/98a/pr034-98.html<BR/><BR/>Video of Giuliani saying he supports Roe can be seen here: <BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBtPIrEleMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-59643975459857375332007-03-12T07:31:00.000-07:002007-03-12T07:31:00.000-07:00Joe:Social conservatives are peeved precisley beca...Joe:<BR/><BR/>Social conservatives are peeved precisley because abortion is being legislated nationally, it's just that the imposition of (a)morality has been given from the bench. Conservatives are actually working to return the issue to the states via SCOTUS Justices who will interpret the Constitution correctly. <BR/><BR/>And that is precisely why Giualini's position matters. Will he or Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30405512.post-24924491068518453942007-03-11T22:06:00.000-07:002007-03-11T22:06:00.000-07:00JOSEPH D'HIPPOLITO SAYS...Ultimately, this issue a...<B>JOSEPH D'HIPPOLITO SAYS...</B><BR/><BR/>Ultimately, this issue about Giuliani's support for legalized abortion doesn't rest on him, the Supreme Court or activists like James Dobson. It rests on whether "social conservatives" want to use the federal apparatus to enforce virtue, or relinquish the temptation to use that apparatus and apply the truly conservative principle of local control Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com